Friday, March 18, 2016

In 2016 - where to book a flat in Pune real estate market? (Part 2)

A Pimp and A Builder:


Kolte-Patil Western Avenue Wakad Site Sales Office

Last weekend something terrible happened in Pune real estate market.

Kolte Patil Developers Ltd. (KPDL) launched their much awaited project - Western Avenue. Yes, on the same 34 acre land parcel at Wakad, they had acquired in 2014 for Rs. 350 Crores. Without funding from ICICI Venture, Portman Holdings, Yatra Capital or Corolla Realty. Largely through internal accruals. Certainly, a big achievement for a local listed builder.

25 year old developer, Kolte Patil, who has developed 42 projects - 30 residential + 8 commercial + 4 IT Parks - and of course, under construction 400 acre Life Republic at Marunji near Hinjewadi, appointed 'property pimps' to sell the flats in Western Avenue Wakad.

These 'property pimps' uploaded 'unofficial' websites of Western Avenue.
In their sales talk, they told the inquiring flat buyers that - they have 'sole selling rights' of Western Avenue.

Of course, Mr. Mahesh Saluja, V P Sales, KPDL, denied the sole selling rights but accepted that these 'property pimps' are their major channel partners.

You know? At the launch, these property pimps were 'managing' the site office of Western Avenue. Without disclosing their true identity. Pretending that they were employees of Kolte-Patil.

Of course, according to KPDL, the back office was managed by KPDL employees & the 'property pimps' were operating only in the front office of Western Avenue! Whatever!! The fact is Kolte-Patil didn't publicly disclose that everyone in the site office was not their employee. This is not ethical.

Result is - most of the 'walk in inquiries' assumed that they were talking with the employee of Kolte Patil Developers. But fact was they were talking with the imposters.

Not only that! Some people actually believed these imposters, trusted whatever was printed in the brochure of Western Avenue and gave away their hard earned money as a booking amount!

Without bothering to confirm genuinity of the person who attended them.
Without bothering about - land title, N A Order, environmental clearance, sanctioned plans, commencement letter etc.
Without bothering to check the draft agreement.
Without knowing the terms of transaction between the builder & the flat buyers.

Who does this?
Brochure Dekh Ke Kaun Flat Book Karta Hai?
Only ignorant flat buyers who are stupid enough to make the decision based on location & property prices!!

These 'property pimps' are experts in catching these ignorant flat buyers spread all over the world.
Who are not aware about their rights & responsibilities.
Who don't understand that they are the co-owners - stakeholder - partners - in the real estate venture promoted by a builder.
Who don't know that every real estate project is not only a group housing scheme - it is also a collective investment scheme.

Kolte Patil may have invested 350 crores in the land + a few crores to plan the project + a few crores to get sanctions & approvals. But the collective investment of all flat buyers would be much much more.

If 60 per cent of these co-owners agree that - the chief executive of the venture - the builder - is performing poorly - they can strip his executive powers - tell him to sit on the bench.

Obviously, the flat buyers should be treated as co-owners.

At least, as human beings.

Absolutely not like 'Bhed Bakri'.

Yes! You become "Bhed Bakri' when 'property pimps' catch you.
Because property pimps are not responsible for possession - for construction quality - for conveyance - for anything.
For these property pimps, home buyers are only easy prey & flats are inventory. Maal.
Their only job is to hunt & hand over the catch to the builder.
No wonder by the time of possession every residential project in Pune becomes a slaughterhouse.

Isn't it terrible to see the young - intelligent - educated - salaried - people voluntarily becoming 'Bhed Bakri'?

Someday, I am worried, the cries of these lambs would be louder than the noise of traffic on Mumbai Bengaluru Highway!

An Assertive Flat Buyer and An Affirmative Builder:


Assertive Flat Buyers

Guess why did Kolte-Patil take the help of property pimps?

Because these pimps have wider reach.

Why does wider reach matter?

Because there is a shortage of ignorant stupid flat buyers in Pune!

(In fact, there is a shortage of ignorant stupid flat buyers in entire India! Yes! Even property buyers in Delhi & NCR are also awakened!! No wonder, all politicians voted for real estate regulatory bill!!!)

Recently, at one of Pune property exhibitions, I was talking with a group of real estate salespersons.

You know what? Enquiries is not a problem. Conversion is the problem! One real estate salesperson said.

Why is conversion a problem? I asked.

Because today majority of flat buyers have become 'Shaane' - smart. He said.

Smart? Means what? I asked.

Informed. Assertive. He said.

Is it difficult to convince informed & assertive flat buyers? I asked.

Yes! They give lot of 'Shanpatti' - argue on every point - rate - carpet area - parking - environmental clearance - compensation for delayed possession - and what not! He said.

The current slowdown is basically because of that. Otherwise, demand is there. A senior real estate salesperson said.

I tell them - if you want to buy a flat - you have to submit yourself for exploitation - you can't prevent builders from exploiting flat buyers - accept the dominant position of a builder or live in a rented flat forever. One salesman said.

Ravi, do you have any idea - in which projects these smart guys book? Is there any builder in Pune who is so fair & friendly? Senior real estate salesman asked.

Yes! I know one project where some informed & assertive flat buyers have booked!! I announced.

Must be some small single stand alone building project of a new builder. Senior salesperson said sarcastically.

No. It's a 9 + acre project of some 500 + flats and the builder is not new. I don't know whether the flat buyers consider him friendly. But, for sure, they consider him fair. I declared.

I find it difficult to believe that any builder can convince & convert today's notorious buyers. One salesman said.

Yes! Most of them are from the most notorious place - Indian Real Estate Forum. I said.

Shocking! Whoever visits that forum cancels his booking - I haven't heard anyone from that forum booking anywhere. Senior salesperson said.

They didn't have to go anywhere to book - because this builder himself is on the forum. He discussed with all of them on the forum itself. I said.

They must have made lot of allegations & must have insulted him by asking all sorts of questions. One salesperson said.

Is asking questions insulting? I asked.

At least my boss thinks so. One salesperson said.

This builder doesn't think so. He has published his terms of transactions & policies on his website. So, there is less ambiguity. Less doubts. Complete transparency - clarity. I said.

For example? One salesperson asked.

You ask. I will answer. Though I am not his salesman or a flat buyer - I am sure - I can answer most of your questions. You know why? Because most of this info is there in the public domain - on his website, on his facebook page or on Indian Real Estate Forum. I challenged them.

For the next few minutes we had an interesting Q & A session. Here is a brief summary -

Q. - People are enquiring but not booking. They are waiting for property prices to go down. How does this builder convince the buyers to book?

A. - By offering "Rate Protection Policy"! On his website, in the download section, he has published that - 'If we reduce the prices or come up with some offer then discount in lieu of reduction in prices / offer will be passed to previous bookings whose rates were higher in comparison to effective rates after discounting.'!

"That's great! It means that you can book the flat of your choice without bothering about property price correction!!," senior salesperson said.

"Yes. it sounds attractive but the implementation of this type of offers is complicated," one salesperson said.

"Not really! 'Credit note will be issued to such purchasers whose remittance shall be done at the time of possession after receipt of entire dues' - the Rate Protection Policy says!," I said.

Q. - What are the infrastructure charges?

A. - No infrastructure charges. No MSEB charges. No society formation charges. No legal charges. His property price list has 12 headings - 1) Flat No. 2) Carpet Area 3) Saleable Area 4) Rate 5) Premium 6) Floor Rise 7) Agreement Cost 8) Stamp Duty 9) Registration Charges 10) VAT 11) Service Tax 12) Maintenance Deposit 12) Grand Total

"Really? I didn't know that there is any builder in Pune who doesn't sell car parking under the heading of infrastructure charges! You know? Nowadays, every flat buyer argues about infrastructure charges!" - one salesman said.

Q. - What is the percentage of loading?

A. - Saleable area is just for the sake of calculations. Flat is sold on carpet area. His carpet area is pure carpet area. Terrace area is mentioned separately. So, saleable area is equal to = 1.3 x Carpet + Terrace. Means 1.3 x 801 + 105 = 1147 round figure.

"Our saleable area = (Carpet + Terrace) x 1.3 - (801 + 105) x 1.3 = 1178!," one salesman said.

"My brochure & price list has only saleable areas. No carpet area. To avoid flat buyers' abuse I write approx carpet area by my pen!," the other salesman said.

Q. - What is maintenance deposit? No maintenance charges at the time of possession?

A. - No per sq. ft. maintenance charges at the time of possession. Only maintenance deposit. The builder will only collect the maintenance deposit. He will never touch it. He will not spend a single rupee from it. He will handover it to the society as corpus fund.

"Then how will he manage maintenance? You can't give possession of a 9 acre project at one go? When you develop it in 2 phases - you have to maintain the first phase at least for 2 to 3 years. Right?," someone said.

"Yes, of course! The project will be developed in the phases. Till the society is formed & starts maintaining the project - the builder will maintain it. He will keep Maintenance Deposit safe in the bank. He will only use the interest earned on that deposit to maintain the first phase. In case, if any additional funds are required for the maintenance - the builder will spend from his own pocket. Whatever additional funds he will spend from his own pocket are his marketing expenses. If the flat buyers in the first phase are happy - you know - they will give referral bookings to the builder. If the first phase is maintained properly - the builder can sell second phase at a higher rate. Right?," I explained.

"Can he afford to buy tankers and supply free water?," one salesman asked.

"We are talking about a good builder. A good builder doesn't develop a project in a fringe village. Only tapori builder does that. Good builder develops project only in municipal limits - where basic infrastructure is available. This project is in PCMC!," I said.

"Do you mean to say that Godrej & Puravankara who have launched projects in Undri & Keshav Nagar are not good builders?," one asked.

"According to my definition - certainly, not. Of course, if they supply free water - I may change my definition," I said.

Q. - What about possession date & compensation for delayed possession?

A. - Possession date is mentioned on the property price list & of course, in the Agreement to Sale. Not only that! The compensation for delayed possession is also mentioned in the Agreement to Sale.

"Specific date or just 2 years from the date of agreement?," someone asked.

"Specific date of possession of the particular building - the same date in the agreements of all flats in that particular building," I said.

"No oral commitment of possession in December 2016 but in the agreement June 2017?," one salesman asked.

"No!," I said.

"At this builder there is no scope for salesmanship!," someone said.

"When one flat buyer saw different date in the agreement - he simply refused to sign the agreement - got into his car - left the Sub-Registrar's office at Hinjewadi. I chased him on my bike up to Wakad flyover and convinced him that possession date in the agreement doesn't matter much - we never give possession on the date mentioned in the agreement - we give it at the orally committed date!," senior salesperson said.

"Did he sign the agreement?," someone asked.

"Yes! Of course!!," the senior salesperson said.

"Did I tell you that this builder doesn't take legal charges - incidental charges - xerox charges - in cash - for the registration of agreement?," I asked.

"Does he take by cheque?," one salesman asked.

"No cash - no cheque - no legal charges," I said.

"Still his agreements are registered!," someone said.

"Yes! Not one or two - 100 agreements are already registered and the home loans are disbursed," I said.

Q. - Does the flat buyer get the draft of agreement to read before signing?

A. - Yes! The flat buyer gets the draft agreement and enough time to consult his lawyer. The annexure of the agreement has a list of specifications & amenities. Franking is done only after the flat buyer gives a written acceptance letter.

"I tell my flat buyers - what is the point in reading the agreement? Anyways, we will not change a single word!," one salesman said.

Q. - How many story building & how many slabs?

A. - The building is 2 level car parking + 14 Stories. And slabs are 16. Tentative schedule - dates - of slabs is mentioned in the price list. So that in advance, people get an idea about - in which month - how much payment is due.

"My building also has 2 level car park + 14 stories - but, you know? The flooring of the basement parking is our plinth!," one salesman said.

"How can it be a plinth? Flooring of the residential floor is the plinth!," the senior salesman said.

"Redefine the construction industry - is the mission of my boss," one salesperson said.

Q. - What more info is available on the website?

A. - A flat buyer in USA can visit the website and book a flat online!
1) He can study the floor plan.
2) See which flats are available for booking.
3) What is the exact price of the flat & tentative slab wise payment schedule with amounts & months.
4) What are the current discount offers
- discount for the stagewise advance payment
- discount for group bookings
5) Which banks have approved the project.
6) Brands of sanitary wares, tiles, sink, electric switches, video door phone.
7) The website will also tell him
- when can he visit his under construction flat
- when can he start interior & furniture work
- he can not demand internal changes in the flat
- when can he get working, electrical & plumbing drawings of his flat
- when he should pay all dues
- what will happen if the flat buyer can not take possession of the flat
- can a flat buyer hold a part of the flat price because a few amenities are not yet ready
8) If he has made up his mind - on the website itself - he will get the account details - for transferring the booking amount.
9) He doesn't have to worry - what will happen if he changes his mind & decides to cancel his booking - before the registration of agreement and after the registration of agreement - because cancellation policy and cancellation charges are published on the website
10) Before registration of agreement - if the flat buyer feels like changing his chosen flat and opt for some other - the website will tell him the procedure
In short, a flat buyer in USA can get complete information about offers and he can select, book, pay, exchange or even cancel his flat!

Q. - Any special treatment for the NRIs?

Yes! Besides remote investing in Pune property, in this project maintain long distance relations is very much possible! Because, every flat buyer can login in his account where he can get all details about his flat - agreement, payments, schedules, receipts, loan documents, everything. As per the payment schedule he will get alerts by sms, emails, postal mail and he can make stage wise payments by cheque - draft - wire transfer.

An NRI flat buyer can see the photos of fortnightly construction progress on the website & Facebook Page.

"Is this builder really uploads photos every 15 days?," one salesperson asked.

"Yes! That's why I recommend him to all my overseas readers," I said.

"If all builders started making self explanatory websites - we will become jobless!," one salesperson said.

"Keep this in mind when you attend your next enquiry," senior salesperson said.

Q. - What about possession?

A. - First Inspection - builder's quality team inspects the flat. Second Inspection - Flat buyer, engineer, and salesperson do the joint inspection. 3) Before handover every point is checked. At the time of handing over the flat - Possession Kit is given to the flat buyer, The possession kit has a CD of an agreement, working - electrical - plumbing drawings - useful for interior work, emergency medical kit, tool box, and telephone diary of essential numbers - of course, the final possession is given only after completion & occupancy certificate.

"At my last site possession was the most stressful experience - for both - for the buyer and me," one salesperson said.

"Same here," said the other salesperson.

"Is this only a plan or has this builder followed this possession process before?," senior sales person asked.

"He has followed this process while giving possession of some 1000 flats in his last project. Of course, it has evolved with time," I said.

Q. - Is this a fantasy or a true story?

It sounds like a fantasy. But it is not. You can visit this project on Mumbai Bengaluru Highway at Punawale. If you wish - you can meet the builder in person. He is always accessible for the flat buyers. Most important - whatever claims he has made on his website - he is personally accountable for it. I don't know whether you will like him or not. But if you buy a flat in his project - you will start respecting yourself. You will feel proud about yourself. You will congratulate yourself for making the right decision.

Q. That's fine! But what about environmental clearance?

OMG! Now, not only the property buyers but salespersons in Pune real estate market are also aware about EC!! The builder started the construction of the project only after obtaining environmental clearance! So, EC, NA, full potential PCMC sanction everything is obtained.

What is the name of the project? And who is the builder?

I will tell you the name only if you promise that you will tell your builder to set transparent terms of transactions in your project. After all real estate development is a service industry. Today, one of the reasons why property buyers are not booking is - a huge deficiency in service builders offer. If you succeed in convincing your builder - you don't have to worry about losing your job. Otherwise, you know, your builder will call 'property pimps' to launch his next project!

"Yes! Unless we don't improve the quality of our service - we won't survive. I want to visit this site to learn more. What is the url? ," senior salesperson said.

"I will WhatsApp it to you," I said and sent it to him immediately.

If you are curious to know which is this project & who is this builder you can click here!

Related Story:


In 2016 - where to book a flat in Pune real estate market? (Part 1)

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102 comments:

  1. As usual nice article Ravi. Good to hear that someone in pune is transparent and doing some ethical RE business. If you go to cities in southern almost all builder provide their project details online itself, some of them keep on updating regularly as well.
    While I extracted the cost sheet I had a minor attack, why one would think of paying 5300 rate psft near planned garbage depot. I think this rate is going in completely developed area that too with some discount.
    Appreciate builders transparency.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1) "As usual nice article Ravi." - Thanks, Enigma!

      2) "Good to hear that someone in pune is transparent and doing some ethical RE business." - True. Credit goes to both - buyers & builder

      3) "If you go to cities in southern almost all builder provide their project details online itself, some of them keep on updating regularly as well. " - Good to know that, Enigma. Thanks!

      4) "While I extracted the cost sheet I had a minor attack, why one would think of paying 5300 rate psft near planned garbage depot." - Someone like me who lives on Paud Road finds it difficult to agree with you. Now, Kachara Depot on Paud Road is back in business and I am proud of it. You know why? Now, I have stopped spoiling the life of the people living in Phursungi. Now, I have become responsible. Now, I take care of my own garbage. And I am sure, in near future - you will also feel proud of you - because - your ward will also have it's own garbage procession unit. Because not only Punawale - but every ward in PMC & PCMC will have it's own garbage procession unite.

      5) "I think this rate is going in completely developed area that too with some discount." - Property rates at completely developed area without garbage procession unit - like Wakad - is around 6,000. Property rates at completely developed area with a garbage processing unit - like Aundh - are much more.

      6) "Appreciate builders transparency." - Thanks! And the property buyers who admire & reward it by booking. Right?

      Delete
    2. Ravi this is in contras to your view, in earlier article you agree that prices should fall by 50% and in this reply you backing the exorbitant pricing.
      I am not afraid of managing the garbage on our own. Truly speaking we manage our household kachara on own, this is not only case with me all people my region are kachara conscious. But question remains unanswered do people have to pay such high price for the projects in this kachara city.
      This fight is not only against the builder mafia arrogance, cheating but also the right price.
      After few more years people will start feeling that this city is really heaven on this earth for such process and start fleeing away (some have already started).

      Delete
    3. After few more years people will start feeling that this city is really heaven on this earth for such pricing and start fleeing away (some have already started).

      Delete
    4. Yes, Enigma! You are right. Irrational property prices in Pune real estate market is the most important issue.

      It has always been.

      Even in 2005 when at Wakad the rate was around Rs. 1,600 per sq.ft., in 2008 when it was around 3,300 & today when it is nearly 6,000.

      But there are other issues too.

      Here I am trying to focus on positive aspect - increasing awareness & assertiveness among the buyers and builder's fair & transparent business practices.

      I am sure, you do not want me to write only about property prices. You want me to write about how buyers are suffering. You want me to write about the changing expectations of the property buyers. Am I right?

      Delete
    5. See Ravi sir. Fools r fools. How long we can keep on teaching them. U may b knowing that these r educated fools. More u tell them more opposite thing they will do, this my experience. Maj ahe hyanna kashacha nahi mahit. I think u have experienced this in paranjape project khed shivapur visit.
      About this kachara project if builder is so conscious about transparency he would b also conscious about pricing. No one entered in this biz for charity all wanted to become billionaires in night. We shouldn't b supporting any of these in any way where he is friend/relative. If they r doing not well shut and jump in other biz before things go OOC.

      Delete
    6. " Even in 2005 when at Wakad the rate was around Rs. 1,600 per sq.ft., in 2008 when it was around 3,300 & today when it is nearly 6,000. "

      - But even at 2005 salaries, 1600/sq ft was affordable by many & difference between EMI & rent was low. During this time, terrace was charged 30-50% & loading on carpet at 20%. Now it's 35-45% on carpet + terrace. So not just total costs have gone up, but loading too, thus 1600/sq ft of 2005 is not 6000/sq ft of 2016 but 7500-8000/sq ft when compared with similar salable area calculation.

      Now have the incomes increased 7-8 times (since cost of living has gone up, so can't take it same as flat rate hike) or the infrastructure in Wakad has developed by 7-8 times ?

      Delete
    7. "No one entered in this biz for charity all wanted to become billionaires in night."

      - Absolutely right. They want to make more money with least efforts. Had this been not the case, why floor plans of several builders don't even mention carpet area ? Why launch project without approvals ? Builders will put pressure on buyer even if payment is delayed by 2 days but he won't bother at all if project is delayed by 4 years. And if sample flat is made to look like gold, actual flat which is delivered is like rusted iron. Either give actual flat as gold or show sample flat also as rusted iron. What builders are doing is not business but white collar loot.

      Delete
    8. "See Ravi sir. Fools r fools. How long we can keep on teaching them. U may b knowing that these r educated fools. More u tell them more opposite thing they will do, this my experience - " Dear Enigma, You are right about the fools. But wrong about 'teaching them' - you will never stop teaching them! You will keep on enlightening these fools with your comments!! I admire you for that.

      Delete
    9. "Now have the incomes increased 7-8 times (since cost of living has gone up, so can't take it same as flat rate hike) or the infrastructure in Wakad has developed by 7-8 times?" - Certainly, not - TheMonk! Salaries & infrastructure is not increased in that proportion.

      That's why ten years ago we were feeling that we are prospering - whereas today everyone feels that we are becoming poorer and poorer.

      You are also right about loading.

      Why did this happen? Why didn't the property buyers refuse to pay these exorbitant charges?

      Only because they were not aware. Only because they weren't assertive enough to refuse to pay these charges. Right?

      Good news is now the awareness level is increasing. Today, we find more & more people are becoming assertive. And you are contributing in increasing awareness & assertiveness. Result is we can see the transparent terms of transactions in at least one project! Right?

      Delete
    10. "What builders are doing is not business but white collar loot." - Those who have suffered because of the loot - like the flat buyers of Bhujbal Brothers' Misty Trails - http://goo.gl/0HF0yY - have realized that they have made a big mistake - and they themselves are responsible for the loot. This is positive development. Isn't it?

      Delete
    11. Dear Enigma,
      If you see the Cost Sheet, though our Base rate is 5300, our current offer where we waive off Stamp, Reg, Service Tax & VAT amounts to a discount of avg. 600 per sfts. Hence the effective base rate happens to be 4700. Moreover there are no separate heads for MSEB, Society formation, Legal, Parking etc, the agreement cost includes all.
      As regards the proposed garbage depo, then we had always had a clear disclosure about it with our buyers. Also as per the executive engg of that zone, the garbage depo will not be a dump but a Solid Waste Management, where dry garbage collected from neighbouring societies will be processes. It is expected from big societies where no of flats are more than 200 to process their wet garbage within their premises and consume the manure at the landscape area.
      I believe that since buyers had invested their trust in us, it becomes our duty to timely deliver their dream homes as per our commitments and there expectations.
      On price front I would say that we are slightly on higher side, which is for the legitimacy, efficacy, design, planning, execution, and service we deliver. I do not find anything wrong in maximising profits as it is essential from organisational expansion point of view, but at the same time, we must adhere to our commitments and ensure that buyers interest are been sufficiently safeguarded. Our Business Philosophy has always revolved & evolved around 3 things viz Trust, Transperancy & Ethics. We never doubt the intelligence of the buyer, hence the buyer scrutinises us on these fronts, and if he thinks that the price is justified he goes for the deal.

      Delete
    12. "Dear Enigma,
      If you see the Cost Sheet, though our Base rate is 5300, our current offer where we waive off Stamp, Reg, Service Tax & VAT amounts to a discount of avg. 600 per sfts. Hence the effective base rate happens to be 4700. Moreover there are no separate heads for MSEB, Society formation, Legal, Parking etc, the agreement cost includes all."

      - Thanks for details. When Pune real estate market is going on full throttle, CREDAI says prices are only going to go up, wondering why discounts are being offered ?

      Delete
    13. Mr. Pethkar the builder himself on blog. Good 2 c u replying. I won't thank u for that. Actually u r helping urself. The monk has already explained the economics of construction.
      Little thing wanted to share, I came across a situation around where 2-3 families r staying in 1 bhk. For a while I just thought about their personal life (personal means very personal) how would they b managing. Their dreams r also high. Buying car bla bla...hope they get everything they dream. But just imagine if they don't. This is situation in this kachara city. Third fourth fifth...world city with 1st world prices.

      Delete
    14. "Those who have suffered because of the loot - like the flat buyers of Bhujbal Brothers' Misty Trails have realized that they have made a big mistake - and they themselves are responsible for the loot. This is positive development. Isn't it? "

      - Correct but they paid very expensive price for this positive development. Now with RERA being implemented, all buyers of Bhujbal, Mittal, KUL, Maple, Marvel, Goel Ganga etc. can file case with it & get speedy justice.

      Delete
  2. I initially thought the project would be Little Earth...but a good surprise that there are more builders in Pune worth mentioning as trustworthy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, Neil! This is the positive side of Pune real estate market. I wrote this blog because - after reading tragedies of the flat buyers in KUL Ecoloch, Suyog Lucky Homes, Suyog Nisarg, Aura City - many readers told me to write about good projects in Pune real estate market.

      Delete
  3. Builders are selling flats (Total Costing of the flat) on Built up area and not on Carpet as mentioned in Real Estate Bill 2016, Don't you think this is fraud. for example.
    Carpet = 1000 sqft
    Terrace = 100 sqft
    saleable Area is = 1.3xCarpet + Terrace = 1.3x1000+100 = 1400 sqft

    Salable Area= 1400 sqft.

    But according to the Real estate bill, Builder can not sell flat on Bultup Area, he need to sell it on Carpet area +Terrace

    i.e.

    Actual costing of the flat should be based on Carpet+ Terrace.
    There should not be loading allowed.

    so Actual Selling Area= CArpet+TErrace= 1000+100= 1100 Sqft.

    and not 1400 Sqft.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Anand!

      Many people assume that after the regulator - current property rates based on saleable area will be applicable for the carpet area!

      Means, if the current rate based on the saleable area is 5000 - after the regulator - carpet area would be sold at 5000.

      No. It is not going to happen like this! The builders will take the same price.

      Means -
      A) 1000 saleable X 5000 = 50,00,000.
      B) 800 carpet x 6250 = 50,00,000.

      Instead of 5000 per sq.ft. - the rate would be 6,250 per sq.ft.

      By the way - terrace is not the part of carpet area! Carpet area is the space inside the 4 walls.

      Terrace is outside the 4 walls. It's a common area.

      Delete
    2. "A) 1000 saleable X 5000 = 50,00,000.
      B) 800 carpet x 6250 = 50,00,000.

      Instead of 5000 per sq.ft. - the rate would be 6,250 per sq.ft. "

      - But buyers will know that area is 800 & not 1000.
      Today idiot buyers know only rate per sq ft on salable without even knowing what is carpet area & what is loading. Once they are charged on carpet, 2 things will happen -

      1. They will know what actual area of their flat is....LoL,

      2. They will be able to compare prices of 2 different projects/builders easily as crooked builders put more loading including on terrace to show more area but lesser per sq ft cost.

      Apart from this, they can ask if land cost is 500/sq ft, construction cost which is mostly third class of most Pune builders of 950-1000/sq ft + bribe of 100/sq ft, the cost is not more than 1600/sq ft, or let's even say 2000/sq ft. So why is builder selling for 6250/sq ft ?

      So even dumbest of the dumb buyer will know something about area & price.

      Delete
    3. "So why is builder selling for 6250/sq ft?" - Yes, TheMonk! Questioning the pricing is the right of the flat buyers. And I am sure, when the flat buyers will realize that they are the co-owners of the venture - they will start questioning.

      Delete
    4. Dear anandkajave,
      As per MOFA as well as the provisions in the new RERA Bill 2016, it is not necessary to sell the flat on carpet but mandatory to mention it in all offerings. Till the time there is clear disclosure about all areas like carpet, terrace & saleable in cost sheet & agreement, there shouldn't be any concern. Having said that if the Authority brings in an amendment to sell it on carpet, we will abide with it. In that case as mentioned by Ravi Sir, it won't affect the final costing of the unit but will result into change in per sq.ft rate.

      Delete
    5. @ Jitendra Pethkar,

      It is mandatory to sell only on CARPET AREA only.
      Even price escalation clauses won't be applicable henceforth, which was used by builders to extract more money from existing buyers due to their greed.
      Details are clearly mentioned -

      A major benefit for consumers proposed is that builders will have to quote prices based on carpet area and not super built-up area, while carpet area has been clearly defined in the bill to include usable spaces like kitchen and toilets.

      http://www.firstpost.com/business/real-estate-bill-good-news-for-home-buyers-whats-in-the-fine-print-2668674.html

      Delete
    6. To Sell with only Carpet Area, The rate goes to Rs. 7360/sqft

      Salable Area 1309*5300= 69.3 Lac
      Carpet Area 942 * 7360 = 69.3 Lac

      Is this valid rate for a place like Punawale?
      Are we getting properties costlier that US and UK? (The infrastructure is not same though)

      @TheMonk
      Is RERA focuses on regularizing these rates too? or it would be buyers responsibility to get these things checked.

      Delete
    7. Hi Gaus,

      "Is this valid rate for a place like Punawale?"
      - Punawale is tomorrow's London, so even 7360/sq ft is very cheap. Infact, a flat buyer in Punawale will be eligible to become Mayor of London as per latest statement issued by CREDAI !


      "@TheMonk
      Is RERA focuses on regularizing these rates too? or it would be buyers responsibility to get these things checked."

      - All the projects, new as well as existing ones which haven't received completion certificate will have to get registered with RERA. As a buyer you will see whether the project is listed or not on the website of RERA and then easily come to know if project is legal or illegal.
      But despite this, buyers should not act as if their brains is in knees & should buy flat after due verification.

      Delete
    8. Thanks for reply TheMonk.

      - Punawale is tomorrow's London.. LOL..

      But after listening all thoughts/comments since from 2011, I am still confused, whether flat rates are gonna be come down.

      Every year I hear the same thing and market is growing like anything.
      I know 2.8Lac units are still unsold, but when I go for enquiry of property, every time I get response book it early otherwise rates would be revised/increased by 200 next month and same thing happening.

      Delete
    9. One thing you forgot - change of Govt both at centre as well as state & this is one Govt for which you can vouch it to be of corruption free.
      Lot of builders in Pune got funded thanks to major scams including Irrigation scam running into tens of thousands of crores. It's no wonder that ex-heavy weight minister in previous Govt is cooling his heels in jail.

      Bhujbal and Peter: Of sharing cell and dabba

      http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Bhujbal-and-Peter-Of-sharing-cell-and-dabba/articleshow/51692748.cms

      Delete
  4. Ravi sir we r forgetting one more section of people kindly name them. These r so called class1,2 officers. Actually truth about these people us that they r failed people in their academics engineering or poor performers. They're there only bcz their forefathers r failed politicians or have lust for lal divyachi gadi. These r investors and possess multiple properties. One reason why Pune builders r not much worried.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. True, Enigma. Bureaucrats are major investors in Pune real estate market.

      Delete
  5. "Kolte Patil Developers Ltd. (KPDL) launched their much awaited project - Western Avenue. Yes, on the same 34 acre land parcel at Wakad, they had acquired in 2014 for Rs. 350 Crores. Without funding from ICICI Venture, Portman Holdings, Yatra Capital or Corolla Realty. Largely through internal accruals. Certainly, a big achievement for a local listed builder."

    - Motilal Oswal real estate has invested in this project last month, before launch. Kolte patil may have bought this for 350 Cr in 2014 but now Motilal Oswal has picked up stake for 58 Cr ! Need to ask builder how much is the stake sold to motilal oswal for 58 Cr.

    Since this project is of Kolte Patil, property pimp here need to answer about what is status of Amit Sereno near pancard club which was later taken by kolte patil & renamed 24k something ? And problems faced by buyers.
    What is status of bhama askhed dam pipeline which kolte patil was to give to flat buyers at Ivy Estate project, Wagholi ?
    Why is Life Republic near Hinjewadi is moving at snail's pace ?
    CEO of kolte patil, Sujay Kelele has resigned few months ago. What is the reason for resignation ?

    No matter which is the project, location or builder, go for ready possession flat with all approvals & good infrastructure. It is even better if agreement is made post real estate regulatory norms are fulfilled by builder so that buyer is covered with it's protections right from day 1. If not possible, stay on rent.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "now Motilal Oswal has picked up stake for 58 Cr !" - Really?!

      Yes, the property buyers must ask questions about - Sereno, Life Republic, water supply at Ivy Estate?

      TheMonk, if the flat buyers were aware about these issues - do you think that they would have booked flats in Western Avenue?

      But why ask about Sujay Kelele or all those engineers, site supervisors, salespersons who are no more with KPDL? I saw him at Amura. I didn't feel like asking. Downsizing is essential for survival. Isn't it?

      Delete
    2. I keep getting emails from several brokerage houses & this 58 Cr was part of Motilal Oswal India Realty Fund 3. Actually, they had planned to raise 1,000 Cr but were able to raise barely 500 Cr ! So even fund houses are not getting money for realty funds ! Just tried to search & found this link -

      http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/real-estate/motilal-oswal-real-estate-invests-total-rs-114-crore-in-two-projects/articleshow/51042585.cms

      "TheMonk, if the flat buyers were aware about these issues - do you think that they would have booked flats in Western Avenue?"

      - Very soon you will be invited there to write a blog, LoL.
      These idiots should have atleast given a thought that when kolte patil is unable to complete his existing projects, which are delayed not by months but by years, how they will complete this at first place ?

      "But why ask about Sujay Kelele or all those engineers, site supervisors, salespersons who are no more with KPDL? Downsizing is essential for survival. Isn't it? "

      - This is indeed the precise reason. Wonder why idiot buyers don't even make basic analysis of such details. Buyers who book without due verification should not use helmet but knee guards, LoL !

      Delete
    3. Read this comment - "I booked a flat in Life Republic in 2011. Possession date on Agreement is December 2014. I am still awaiting for possession" - http://goo.gl/gLyOsr

      Delete
  6. You are absolutely right,but Why they don't sell the flats on carpet area as of now?
    I really want to now the reason behind it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1) Because there are few buyers who are as aware as you are, Qwerty 1.

      2) TheMonk has given the other reasons in his above comment.

      Delete
  7. The pool at Paranjpe Yuthika is dry since 6 months.They require 20 tankers each day,but most wells in Baner have gone dry.The tankers are fetching water from punawle.So inspite of being ready to pay the price,only 10 tankers per day are available.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is precisely what happens when buyers ignore basic infrastructure while buying flat. Not just Paranjape Yuthika, but my friend informed that even swimming pools at Blue Ridge, Hinjewadi are dry. People pay high price for such amenities in poor localities & end up getting such glorified ditch ! Same goes with Marvel Fria, Wagholi where they have fancy amenities but even they get cheap quality for drinking by water tankers & garbage disposal issue is also major one. And entire summer is to pass ! Think about water tankers rate & availability after 2 months. Be prepared to take sponge bath in swimming pool, LoL. So always focus on infrastructure first, then the amenities.

      BTW, here we are paying developed world prices for flats & getting third class infrastructure. What would you call a buyer who pays over a crore for a flat which doesn't provide proper drinking water ?

      Delete
    2. "always focus on infrastructure first, then the amenities" - very true, TheMonk.

      Delete
  8. This Kolte Patil project is actually not a new project but old wine in new bottle err no, desi daru in Kingfisher Strong !!

    This project was earlier called as Monarch Renaissance & was launched 4 years back in 2012. Since Kareena Kapoor was on ads, many dumb buyers bought it. Later builder scrapped the project. Monarch Renaissance has now become Western Avenue & Kareena Kapoor has become Kareena Khan !!

    Now all those who booked in 2012, they faced lot of problems - main problem being project itself getting scrapped ! And now there is another set of buyers who are following the footsteps of 2012 buyers by booking in under-construction project. Hats off to such buyers who are determined to get conned. CREDAI should announce yearly awards to such buyers.
    Here is the link from Ravi's blog of it :

    http://ravikarandeekarsblog.blogspot.in/2012/05/great-new-bombay-circus-comes-to-wakad.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just want to add Amit Sereno link from Ravi's blog. This project too is yet to see light of the day despite being launched in 2012. This Amit builder had money to pay to Sachin Tendulkar but not to complete the project.

      And there was property pimp by the name Shark who commented on both the links.

      As per Ravi people are not foolish to invest in projects like sereno but still they are investing.. proving Ravi to be foolish.

      http://ravikarandeekarsblog.blogspot.in/2012/06/amits-sereno-baner-unveiled.html

      Guys, this guy is writing all bullshit... dont even think about it... just enjoy the rhymes he quotes...

      http://ravikarandeekarsblog.blogspot.in/2012/05/great-new-bombay-circus-comes-to-wakad.html

      If this property pimp - Shark is reading this post, he should answer why both the projects got scrapped. Certainly, I may also not be agreeing with Ravi 100% but then there has to be some etiquette to be maintained. But then expecting this from Pune builders & property pimps will be like asking for moon ! And I am sure, this property pimp, Shark must have now become pomfret fish, LoL.

      Delete
    2. Read this -
      I booked a flat in Life Republic in 2011. Possession date on Agreement is December 2014. I am still awaiting for possession.
      - See more at:http://goo.gl/gLyOsr

      Delete
    3. Very useful link Ravi. Hope readers learn from this & avoid making the same mistake.

      Delete
  9. I liked the breakup of higher rate as sum of all things which are charged extra by other builders..

    ReplyDelete
  10. TheMonk I gone through the link on FATCA, I feel one more thing needs to happen from US side. As trump mentioned US has become third world country they should now stop hiring people on H1B. H1B cap should now get reduced to 20-25k only for all technology people. Then real fun will begin. There are investors from this h1b holders as well. Actually in this service based IT these are not technology resources that travel abroad these are functional consultants US/any other country has such resources in mass. They should now higher people locally. There will be big blow to this investor lobby.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very true Enigma. Already lobbying has started in US against H1B visas. See the latest news :

      US senators slam H-1B visa programme :

      http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/US-senators-slam-H-1B-visa-programme/articleshow/51154416.cms

      And do check my replies to your comment :

      http://ravikarandeekarsblog.blogspot.in/2016/03/In-2016-where-to-book-a-flat-in-Pune-real-estate-market.html?showComment=1458107877466#c4307540722318525858

      Delete
    2. Thanks for the reply TheMonk. I agree with most of the points. But the demand from 3-4 tier cities dumb buyers.. I have known investors so mentioning specifically... these people are buying for their children's future here. I can show such buyers. These are ultra smart Gov. employees and bureaucrats. Salaries of such people are not decreasing it is only going upwards. We know that 7th pay commission was not required but still gov implemented it taking huge burden.
      A small incident while I was discussing with the friend of my father, this is for those ultra smart investors. He was telling me "The home that my father bought there I never lived, the home that I bought there my children are not staying and I am sure my son where he has bought there his son is not going to stay."
      So if this is case with almost everyone but still buying is going on. These are people dreaming of becoming landlords.

      Delete
    3. Though I agree to your most of the points I don't have any hopes from the hopeless. There is a history to adamancy.
      Unless and until something stringent action happens against bureaucrats and investors nothing is going to change much.

      Delete
    4. Don't worry Enigma, their amount is too less to absorb 2.8L units of flat & counting. And when politicians themselves are not investing due to negative appreciation & benaami property act to curb black money in real estate, these sarkaari babus are peanuts. And if these peanuts do buy, go & rent that flat for 1/10th the cost of ownership ! I don't understand why so desperation to buy flat in city like Pune at these prices ? Observe closely and you will find real estate is no longer an investment asset on any sane person's radar.

      Delete
  11. Worth reading -

    घोटाळ्यात यंत्रणाही सामील काय? - Jayant Vidwans

    नुकतेच गृहनिर्माण (नियमन व विकास) २०१५ हे विधेयक राज्यसभेत संमत झाले आहे. जुन्या वाजपेयी सरकारच्या काळातील विधेयकापेक्षा हे फारच सौम्य आहे. त्यातही सर्व उपचार पूर्ण होऊन, नियमावली येऊन या कायद्याची अंमलबजावणी होण्यास बराच काळ जाईल. तोपर्यंत भारतातील ‘सबप्राइम क्रायसिस’ पूर्ण झाला असेल, लाखो कुटुंबांची स्वप्ने धुळीला मिळालेली असतील.. - See more at: - https://goo.gl/rXXDTM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very good link. In this, it is clearly mentioned that prices are going to crash & hence delay the decision to buy property. Good thing is the link also mentions that coming of property price crash is not any imagination but a fact and it has been said by venture capitalists who actually invest in builder projects as well as RBI Governor, Raghuram Rajan. Therefore, I am not going to buy property till prices fall by atleast 50%.

      Delete
  12. Ravi.. link is not opening.
    Got a mail from Perfect10 Balewadi. Visit the sight and get free snacks and refreshments. Please visit for free snacks and refreshments. LOL!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Enigma, please, 'Select' the link and go to it - copy and open - it's not clickable.

      Delete
    2. Visit the site and get free snacks and refreshments. - thanks for the info, Enigma!

      Delete
  13. One should never pay a large amount as advance!I am astonished that so many educated people fail to understand this basic rule.We all know that even for a small job to a carpenter or a fabricator if you pay advance ,they give least priority to the work as they HV no incentive to complete the work.How can someone trust builders with their life's savings?And even if the builder is not bad (can't write good) what if he dies due to illness or accident??Investing in underconstruction project is just one level less risky than gambling.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alok Mehta,
      Agree 100% to what you said but people like you are in minority, rest are dumb. It's therefore you see so many complaints against builders coming up in consumer courts, online etc. Things will change when people like you will be in majority. Now hopefully the RERA will atleast ensure that even dumbest of the dumb buyer doesn't act dumb.
      Good thing is the number of dumb buyers is decreasing, thanks to large scale open loot done by builders in past several years that everything is now out in open. One thing which I see now is no one accepts the logic that buy flat today else it will be sold out tomorrow !

      Delete
  14. Dear TheMonk,
    Though the RERA Act has been in public forum, the actual rules are yet to be published and so many links could be just speculations. Hence till it comes into action, flat sale contracts has to abide with MOFA, which specifies to mention Carpet areas in all its offerings. The simple logic behind charging on Saleable Area is it includes common spaces like lobbies, passages, common walls, staircases, top slab etc which incurs cost and needs to be recovered. As I said, if made mandatory to sale on carpet, then it will just change the rate per sft as package cost includes charges for common areas.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Jitendra Pethkar,

      I am sure CREDAI must be working over-time to delay or dilute it but let me assure CREDAI that this is not going to happen. The inputs which I got from a fellow in Urban Development Ministry is this bill even at state level will be implemented swiftly.

      And forget RERA, how many builders even abide MOFA ? The act says to form society in 4 months, do conveyance deed. Even open car parking can't be sold as it's margin space for fire tenders to move around freely incase of emergency. Then there are whole lot of other issues which are over-looked by builder. Simple thing like no construction till environment clearance (EC) is received is also not followed & later projects get stuck.

      Not even 10% builders are following MOFA. Had this been the case, the entire agreement with buyers should have been of not more than 6-7 pages !!

      Good thing of RERA is time based complaint resolution & complete transparency including brochures, no change of layout etc. & pre-registration with RERA before starting bookings. There are cases in Pune where building is sanctioned till 8th floor, builder goes upto 12 & then due to violation, entire building doesn't get completion certificate. This won't happen now.

      Nonetheless, prices are to be charged on carpet as per RERA. This is confirmed news.

      And please don't give lame excuses like staircases, top slab etc. The top slab is nothing but ceiling of flat below. Most of other things are out of FSI. And builders are not doing any favour by offering staircases, lobbies.

      This is like you walk to car showroom & the dealer says the car costs only 50,000. But engine, tyres, seats, lights will be charged extra ! LoL.

      Delete
    2. Dear Mr.Pethkar

      There should be only 2 components that should be shown in the price sheet to ensure transparency which is not difficult :

      1.Builder price - Mention the carpet area and build all your cost including fancy cost like loading , infra , mseb , premium in per square foot based on carpet area .
      So if you had carpet of 1000 sq.ft. @ 5000 psf earlier with 30% loading , revise it to 7000 but charge only on carpet psf . This is the standard price sheet that the industry should follow .

      2. Govt. taxes



      All the buyer wants now is package cost based upon the carpet area provided and the maintenance that he needs to pay .

      Delete
    3. Dear Surya,
      If you go through our Cost Sheet then we have 3 heads, Agreement Cost, Govt taxes & Maintenance Deposit. Though Agreement cost is calculated based on Saleable area, we have a clear disclosure of Carpet & Terrace. Hence buyer can evaluate rate on carpet as well as package cost.

      Delete
    4. You are not following even MOFA properly, what sort of transparency can be expected ?
      And agreement cost is not as mentioned by Surya, but multiple charges like car body, engine, tyres (pay more for spare tyre) !

      Found out that your earlier project was Samrajya at Paud road. It was launched in 2004, about 12 years ago. Society wasn't done in 4 months, and amenities for whose maintenance was taken from buyers during the time of possession was delivered couple of years back. This means early buyers despite paying for amenities & maintenance towards it didn't get amenities for at least 7-8 years, right ? Lot of people complained even with regards the VAT amount being charged to them. And I don't know if conveyance of land has been done in favor of the society till date. Please rectify if something mentioned is wrong.

      Delete
    5. Dear Mr.Pethkar

      I've gone through the cost sheet and find that it will be in both your and your consumer interest to mention the agreement cost directly based on carpet psf . The more simple you make for the consumer the more business for you - win-win for both . More the complexity and tricks , more the money needed to be allocated for marketing and sales - middlemen will eat money which you could have kept or passed on more benefits to consumers .

      Delete
    6. Dear TheMonk,
      Didn't get the point regarding MOFA, hence won't be able to comment.

      When Samrajya was launched in 2004, it had 21 buildings with 3 gardens, later we revised the layout where by we made it 16 buildings with a single large amenity area. In doing so the first building L5 was not changed, while buyers were sufficiently informed about the change. Also they were informed about the schedule of common amenities which was planned after completing all buildings. Their possessions were given in year 2007 while part of the amenities were completed in year 2009 and rest in 2012. I do agree that initially there was much grievance for delay in delivering the amenities, but at the end they were happy to witness a much better & planned amenity space. One time maintenance taken from them was used to maintain the building related services and we tried our level best to maintain them till the handover.
      As regards VAT, then it was mentioned in our Agreement to Sale while additionally we took Indemnity Bonds from new buildings L6&L7. Since the matter was initially pending with HC, then decided by SC, after which we explained then the calculations to start for the recovery. We are glad to receive VAT from 371 customers out of 374. (3 pending cases)
      Regarding Conveyance then its not done for the only reason , it can't be done part wise being a big layout. This argument is supported by recent order from Competent Authority as well as a judgement by a HC bench. Currently matter is pending at HC.

      Delete
    7. Dear Surya,
      Since 2008 we had been following this bifurcation in the Cost Sheet. Its simplified since there are no heads for MSEB, Soc formation, Parking, Infra etc. Since Carpet is clearly mentioned the Buyer have a clear disclosure about the actual area he is going to get. Moreover as per our understanding buyers doesn't find it difficult to figure out the Cost Sheet. If new RERA makes it mandatory to sale on carpet areas then Saleable Area column shall get removed so as to make it more simplified.

      Delete
    8. "When Samrajya was launched in 2004, it had 21 buildings with 3 gardens, later we revised the layout where by we made it 16 buildings with a single large amenity area."

      - It for this reason how RERA will help buyers - no changes in layout without consent of 2/3 buyers.

      " Their possessions were given in year 2007 while part of the amenities were completed in year 2009 and rest in 2012. One time maintenance taken from them was used to maintain the building related services and we tried our level best to maintain them till the handover."

      - The maintenance amount consisted not just building but amenities also. So, maintenance was collected for amenities which didn't exist for 5 years.

      "Regarding Conveyance then its not done for the only reason , it can't be done part wise being a big layout. This argument is supported by recent order from Competent Authority as well as a judgement by a HC bench. Currently matter is pending at HC."

      - AFAIK, each society can get conveyance deed of it's land. Conveyance deed has nothing to do with the size or area of land.
      Can you please name what is the competent authority in this case ?

      And if judgement is given by HC bench, why is it pending in HC ? These statements itself are contradictory with each other. Can you please post the case details, I will ask my lawyers to get some details so that whenever I buy flat, I won't buy in these type of projects.

      "Didn't get the point regarding MOFA, hence won't be able to comment."

      Conveyance of Co- Operative Housing Society :

      As per the provisions under Section 11 of Maharashtra Ownership Flat Act, 1963, Conveyance is the Right of the Co- Operative Housing Society and the Duty of the Property Developer/ Promoter to be executed within 4 months from the date of Registration of the Co- Operative Housing Society.

      After the Land and Building is conveyed in favour of the Co-operative Housing Society and the Title of the property is fully and finally recorded in the Property Card and other Revenue Records then only the Co- Operative Housing Society becomes absolute owner of the Property & the Title of the Co- Operative Housing Society becomes completely free and marketable.

      http://www.deemed-conveyance.in/deemed-conveyance/conveyance-of-co-operative-housing-society/

      If first possession was given in 2007 & still conveyance is not done, this means even after 9 years, land belongs to you, not the flat buyers or society. This means you are not following MOFA at all, despite making claims about it.

      The advantages, most are monetary (especially TDR & FSI) in nature are lost by builder if conveyance is done, so builders avoid it.

      Advantages of Deemed Conveyance :
      http://www.deemed-conveyance.in/deemed-conveyance/advantages-of-deemed-conveyance/

      When builders are not doing conveyance deed, then they should sell flat only on construction cost as land is not handed over to buyer/society by builder. So if someone wants to buy flat in your project, why pay more than 1,500 sq ft ?

      All those who want to buy flat should ask builder when will conveyance deed of land take place ? If builder is non-committal & doesn't give anything in writing, don't buy flat.
      Flat without land is like body without legs.

      Delete
    9. Dear The Monk,
      I appreciate your opinion on my clarifications though i disagree with it. I think till the time there clear disclosure about our planning to the extent of customer satisfaction and there is proper completion of amenities so that there are no grievances about it, I think we are doing a reasonable job.
      Regarding the Conveyance, the Competent Authority is the District Sub-Registrar (Deemed Conveyance) who has passed order in favour of the developer citing reasons as big layout with multiple phases and taking reference of Order passed by Hon. HC Judge in Writ Petition No. 11802/2013. In case of such layouts the FSI/ TDR consumption needs to taken into consideration before making the final Conveyance. The matter was challenged by the Societies at HC bench, which is different from the bench who passed the above order. We have made our submissions in front of this new bench, it will be heard and necessary orders will be passed based on the merits of the case.

      Delete
    10. This is due to greed of builder of not letting go future FSI/TDR benefits associated with the land. Else, one can easily do the conveyance deed as per survey numbers like X/1, X/3, X/6 etc.
      That's why I said that builders who are not keen to do conveyance deed should sell flats only on construction cost.

      Delete
    11. Dear TheMonk,
      The Conveyance deed can't be done base on Survey Nos., like in our case the entire land has only 1 survey no., no subdivision, schemes are actually part of a big layout, development takes place in phase wise manner. FSI of future Phases in consumed in previous Phases, TDR is yet to be loaded etc.
      To understand limitations of doing conveyance in such cases kindly refer to the order passed by Hon. HC Judge Shri. Sonak in Writ Petition No. 11802/2013.

      Delete
    12. Seems this is of year 2013, which is 3 years old. Can you please update me with the latest status ? And it will be really nice if you can copy paste the same here so that I can also get feedback from my lawyers & ensure that flats having such problems related to land should not be purchased.

      Delete
  15. There's one property consultant/ advisor/ broker whoever has been in touch with me for sometime to sell this property. The offer on the face sounds lucrative. https://book.squareyards.com/koltepatil/. Summarily, the buyer does not have to take bank loan. 80 % will be funded by the bank for which builder will pay the interest. While I am not sure how it works, but seriously doubt that there is some catch in this kind of deal. Could you please enlighten me and other folks. At the same time I am keen to understand if there is one single place where I can get the information on what kind of charges/ levies are illegal/ dubious/ should be avoided. What all kind of permits/ sanctions/ clearances the buyer MUST insist upon the builder to see them in black and white.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. See this link which shows real face of such scam offers from builders :

      http://www.nitinbhatia.in/real-estate/7-risks-associated-with-subvention-scheme/

      Delete
  16. Ravi Sir Nice Blog and Thank you so much for helping us.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Builder dupes buyers of Rs 15 cr with fake 33-storey building plan -

    A group of 24 people's dreams of owning a house in this city known for its steep real estate prices, was rudely cut short when they realised that the builder had been duping them with plans of building a 33-storey building when he permission to build only 14.

    http://www.mumbaimirror.com/mumbai/crime/Builder-dupes-buyers-of-Rs-15-cr-with-fake-33-storey-building-plan/articleshow/51520877.cms

    Yet another example how builders scam buyers. So avoid under-construction projects. Have peace of mind & keep money safe.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hello Ravi Sir,

    Thank you for sharing a Very useful information.Can you please share your views on Mont Vert - Blue Bells at Sutarwadi,Pashan.They are quoting 1.5BHK(825sqft) for 57 lacks.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hi Ravi,

    My reply to Jitendra Pethkar is not getting published. Please look into it.
    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Just thought of sharing. Many times couldn't understand what to do about these Mumbai buyers. Many of these stays in chawls and zopapattis and invest in pune flats. Somewhere this needs to be stopped. Is there any law where a person staying in that particular city only can buy/invest in flat?
    Is there any limit one can own the flat?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is done in Singapore but then India is not Singapore.
      Why this is done by people who nevertheless stay in hopeless houses but still buy flats for investment ? Answer is pure greed. Any sane person would focus on improving his own standard of living first rather than invest taking on loan & stay like pauper.

      But now with change in capital gains tax benefits, these investors are stuck as they can own only one house while for rest, capital gains tax is applicable. Now not only property prices are falling, but taxes are also increasing which is double whammy for investors which is actually a good thing.

      And do check out this news :

      4,000 Indian millionaires shifted overseas in 2015: Report

      http://zeenews.india.com/business/news/companies/4000-indian-millionaires-shifted-overseas-in-2015-report_1870728.html

      Delete
  21. Looking at the current condition and after going through all the comments and reactions here only one thing comes to mind Mango people and Banana republic; someone said rightly, don't know. Agree or don't agree doesn't matter.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I get lot of info from you Ravi Sir through your postings. This time I got some more info & facts through TheMonk. Thanq TheMonk for sharing your views. The analogy is apt & funny. I would say you should do a guest post in this blog & share your views in detail. Good job.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hello Ravi Sir and TheMonk: The builders in Wakad are already offering 4700 -4800 basic price (Discounted Scheme) Do you think the prices will go further down? If yes then by how many %? Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Always focus on these points -

      1. Don't fall for rates being quoted by builder on salable area. Get it converted into CARPET AREA & then see what is the actual rate you are paying.
      Crook builders can reduce the rates but increase the loading, thus total price based on carpet area may be same or much less discount than shown by builder. Calculate rates only & only on CARPET AREA.

      Keep chanting this mantra to get actual rate : Om Carpetaya Namah.

      2. If builder says prices reduced from say 6000 psf to 5000 psf, you need to first check whether any sale of flat has actually happened at 6000 psf, else builder can flatly lie by telling imaginary rate & then giving discount on this imaginary rate.
      To check at what rate flats have been actually sold in the project, you can visit this Govt of Maharashtra IGR website & get the details by obtaining Index 2 of the flat. You get not just price but also date of agreement & also how many flats have been actually sold.

      https://esearchigr.maharashtra.gov.in/testingesearch/wfsearch.aspx

      Once you are done with the above, you will immediately realize how builders are making buyers a fool. This 4700-4800 rate will cross 7000-7500 psf on carpet & you will come to know whether flats have been sold at this rate or not as well.

      "Do you think the prices will go further down?"

      - Is there any reason for them going up or even staying at same level ? Had this been the case, there would not been cases of projects getting halted mid-way, builders going bankrupt.

      " If yes then by how many %? "

      - This I don't know but what I know is atleast I won't be buying unless prices fall by atleast 50%. At what price flat is offered is in builders hand, but to buy or not to buy is in buyers hand. But at the end of the day, it's the buyers who will drive the market.
      Till then renting is better, cheaper, comes without liability & keeps you highly flexible. Today I am staying in one of the most sought after location, in one of the top notch projects in this area at a fraction of cost of EMI of a flat even in remote area.

      And do remember, whenever you buy, buy ready for possession flat with all approvals & get approvals checked not from bank chap but by good property lawyer. Even better, buy this post RERA notification to be even more safer.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  24. @ unknown,

    Don't fall for rates being quoted by builder on salable area. Get it converted into CARPET AREA & then see what is the actual discount you are getting.
    Crook builders can reduce the rates but increase the loading, thus total price based on carpet area may be same or much less discount than shown by builder. Calculate rates only & only on CARPET AREA.


    "Do you think the prices will go further down?"

    - Is there any reason for them going up or even staying at same level ? Had this been the case, there would not been cases of projects getting halted mid-way, builders going bankrupt.

    " If yes then by how many %? "

    - This I don't know but what I know is atleast I won't be buying unless prices fall by atleast 50%. At what price flat is offered is in builders hand, but to buy or not to buy is in buyers hand. But at the end of the day, it's the buyers who will drive the market.
    Till then renting is better, cheaper, comes without liability & keeps you highly flexible. Today I am staying in one of the most sought after location, in one of the top notch projects in this area at a fraction of cost of EMI of a flat even in remote area.

    And do remember, whenever you buy, buy ready for possession flat with all approvals & get approvals checked not from bank chap but by good property lawyer. Even better, buy this post RERA notification to be even more safer.

    This is latest news and speaks only about stock market listed real estate firms. If you add non-listed real estate firms, the debt amount will shoot up drastically.

    Rs 59K crore! The amount private real estate firm owe piles up :

    http://www.financialexpress.com/article/industry/companies/outstanding-debt-of-private-realty-firms-piles-up-to-rs-59000-crore/233438/

    The inventory/number of unsold flats is rising & debt is rising, it's simple to know what will happen next.

    ReplyDelete
  25. @ Ravi,

    My comments are not getting displayed here. Please look into it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry. Thanks for informing. Found. Published!

      Delete
    2. Thank you Ravi.
      In the meantime, I have deleted my duplicate comments to keep this blog clutter free.

      Delete
  26. Initially I couldn't understand why did carpet area multiplied by 1.3 in price sheet of Siyona project after doing simple calculation I came to know it's just another way to add 30% loading ..
    I'm really thankful to Ravi sir The Monk Enigma to share such valuable life saving information to poor souls like us..
    I was attracted by Nyati equotorial but when I saw a sample flat and final cost I became FLAT. No water supply Poor road No infra. No telephone lines means no Broadband.. I would rather construct a lavish bungalow in my hometown than paying my life's saving to these morons and give 60% of monthly income for emi maintenance...
    Thanks all once again

    I still find Siyona in pynawale is very expensive as compared to other projects in that area. Very clever calculations by mathematicians at pethkar projects

    ReplyDelete
  27. Excellent discussion! Somehow I missed reading this in April. Hope the downward trend continues and a correction comes in soon in Pune as well.

    It is true that we are paying first-world property rates for third-world infrastructure.

    The 'affordable homes' are still a myth.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Hi,

    I am looking for 1 BHK flat near wakad, baner (650-700 sqft). Any lead?

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  29. SBI's Bad Loans Jump To Staggering Rs 1 Lakh Crore, Profit Slumps 66% :

    State Bank of India, the country's biggest lender, posted a massive 66 per cent fall in its net profit in the March quarter, weighed down by higher provisions for bad loans, which jumped to a staggering Rs 1 lakh crore.

    http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporates/article-sbi-profit-slumps-66-in-q4-as-bad-loans-jump-to-nearly-1-lakh-crore-1412715


    Indian Companies To Pay $4,000 More For H-1B Visa Fee, $4,500 more for L-1 :

    http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporates/article-indian-companies-to-pay-4-000-more-for-h-1b-visa-fee-1412689

    This will have direct impact on Pune real estate as cheap money becomes thing of a past & outsourcing becomes expensive.

    ReplyDelete
  30. These news shows how it is bad decision to buy flat in under-construction project & to be safe, best to buy ready possession flat will all approvals.

    Property developers struggling to deliver apartments on time :

    Thousands of families across India have invested their hard earned money into housing projects but even after the passage of several years, their dream home is yet to be delivered. While builders and realty companies take their own sweet time in completing the project, the families face a tough time in paying both the EMIs of home loans and house rent.

    http://www.livemint.com/Companies/YgE6I5pa21p2Zsxvj46pFM/Property-developers-struggling-to-deliver-apartments-on-time.html


    What happens when you live in flats without completion?

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/What-happens-when-you-live-in-flats-without-completion/articleshow/52429825.cms


    Shaky ground: Now, NRIs shy away from realty market

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/real-estate/shaky-ground-now-nris-shy-away-from-realty-market/articleshow/52285314.cms


    With NRIs out of property market, the funding for builders has further dried up. More builders will go bankrupt at higher pace & the big crash in property prices will also take place.


    And here is news of another Pune crook (builder) fooling flat buyers who has now been sent to jail after flat buyers filed FIR. Builder took money but didn't construct projects.

    http://www.punemirror.in/pune/civic/Builders-bail-plea-rejected/articleshow/52495758.cms

    ReplyDelete
  31. Most people here, mentioned to look at infrastructure first and then amenities. Please let me know, one area in Pune which has good infrastructure and affordable housing? All areas have water supplied by tankers. Please suggest a good affordable scheme.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Hello Ravi,

    Very nice articles. I have been following your blogs since 2012. In fact I own a home because of your blogs. I needed some suggestions from you. I'm looking for a Villa anywhere near Pune. Have you explored any project which you can suggest to buy?

    Thanks in advance.
    Anand

    ReplyDelete
  33. Came across a very well written article. Lot of things have been summed up really well.

    सावधान, बुडत्याचा पाय खोलात :

    काल व्यावसायिक कारणासाठी, एका मोठ्या प्रथितयश बिल्डरला भेटायला गेलो होतो. तेव्हा आर्थिक मंदी ने ग्रासलेल्या बांधकाम क्षेत्रातील दुर्दैवाचा नवा "दशावतार" पाहायला मिळाला. आणि मन सुन्न झाले.

    मोठ्या प्रमाणात बांधकाम करून ठेवलेल्या, अवाढव्य आकार आणि किंमतीच्या सदनिकांची विक्री होत नसल्याने दस्तुरखुद्द बिल्डरनेच त्या सदनिका भाड्याने द्यायला सुरवात केली आहे आणि सर्वात महत्वाचे म्हणजे ग्राहकांना आकर्षित करण्यासाठी त्याने तिथले भाड्याचे दर हे त्या भागातील सर्वसाधारण भाड्याच्या दरांपेक्षा बरेच कमी ठेवले आहेत. या कमी भाड्याबाबत छेडले असता " रिकाम्या पडून रहाण्यापेक्षा काहीतरी उत्पन्न येईल, टॅक्स प्लस थोड्याफार कामगारांचा पगार निघेल " एवढे साधे सरळ " Linear Equation " त्यांनी मला समजावले.

    एका सर्वेक्षणानुसार, पुणे आणि परिसरातील बांधकाम व्यवसायिकांकडे तब्बल दीड ते दोन लाख सदनिका बांधून तयार आहेत पण त्यांना खरेदीदार ग्राहक मिळत नाहीयेत. अनुत्पादक कर्जाचे प्रमाण वाढल्याने बँका व आर्थिकसंस्थानी कर्ज द्यायला हात आखडता घेतला आहे आणि वसुली साठी तगादा लावला आहे आणि मोदी सरकार ने काळ्या पैश्याच्या उलाढालीचे " नरडे " बऱ्यापैकी आवळल्याने, त्या मार्गाने येणारा हक्काच्या रोख गुंतवणुकीचा " जिवंत झरा " जवळ जवळ आटला आहे.

    त्याच वेळेस, पुणे-पिंपरी-चिंचवड-तळेगावदाभाडे-पिरंगुट-मारुंजी-भूगाव-पानशेत-शिरवळ-जेजुरी-उरळीकांचन -रांजणगाव -शिरूर-मोशी या विस्तीर्ण वर्तुळात तब्बल सहा ते सात लाख सदनिका, या छोट्या आणि "सुज्ञ" गुंतवणूकदारांनी फक्त "गुंतवणूक" म्हणून घेऊन ठेवलेल्या आहेत.

    एवढ्या बिकट परिस्थितीत " सुज्ञ " गुंतवणूकदारांचे " मायबाप ", बिल्डरांनीच जर सदनिका अशा कमी दरात भाड्याने द्यायला सुरवात केली तर, या सूज्ञ गुंतवणूकदारांच्या सदनिकांना भाडेकरू मिळणे अवघड होईल किंवा या गुंतवणूकदारांना भाड्याचे दर चालू आहेत त्या पेक्षाही कमी करावे लागतील. पर्यायाने नुकसान सोसावे लागेल.

    सर्वात वाईट म्हणजे पाश्चात्य देशांप्रमाणे भाड्याने किंवा लॉन्ग-लीझ ने राहण्याचा नवा "ट्रेंड" उदयास येऊन वाढीला लागेल आणि सदनिकांची मागणी अजून कमी होईल. मागणी कमी म्हणजेच सदनिकांचे दर आणखीन कमी होतील. पर्यायाने मंदीचा विळखा आणखी घट्ट होईल.

    पुण्यातील मोक्याच्या जागांचे Rental Yield आत्ताच वार्षिक १ ते १.५ टक्के आहे. म्हणजेच सदनिका विकत घेण्याऐवजी, गुंतवणूकदाराने सदनिकेच्या किंमतीएवढे पैसे बचत खात्यात ठेवले तरी सुद्धा मिळणारे व्याज हे सदनिका भाड्याने देऊन येणाऱ्या भाड्याच्या दुपटीहून जास्त असेल तर फिक्स डिपॉझिट मध्ये मिळणारे व्याज हे येणाऱ्या भाड्याच्या तब्बल सहा ते आठ पट असेल. भारतातील बहुतेक सर्व महानगरातील परिस्थिती थोड्या फार फरकाने अशीच आहे.

    *मित्रहो, बांधकाम क्षेत्राला सर्वोत्तम गुंतवणूक समजणा-यांना, तसेच अव्वाच्या-सव्वा कर्ज काढून काहीच्या काही दराने, शहराच्या कानाकोपऱ्यात, कड्या-कपारीत, दऱ्या-खोऱ्यात, जागा मिळेल तिथे पिसटल्या सारखे सदनिका घेत सुटलेल्या बऱ्याच सैराट जणांना ही मंदी म्हणजे एक सणसणीत " श्रीमुखात " ठरेल हे मात्र नक्की.*

    ReplyDelete
  34. Hi all,
    I am planning to buy flat in Wakad or ravet,after so much research I found resale is good option. After so much visit to broker office and give them different lollipops I managed to get offer 59 lac for Wakad 2 bhk 800 sqf in good society and 60 lac. And 59 lac 3 bhk in ravet celestial city . I need your help to finalise.please help me to finalize one flat from this two

    ReplyDelete
  35. thank you all for a very good discussion .... had a thought to buy a flat here at patlanche western avenue but now changed my mind ... better to stay away

    ReplyDelete
  36. Hi Everyone,
    I'm looking to buy a flat in Tinsle town, Hinjewadi phase 2 by Kohinoor group Pune, does anyone have any idea about this project ?

    Thanks in Advance !!!

    ReplyDelete